#8. Resolutions, Part II & The No Alarm Clock Experiment - People and Their Brilliance
“It feels good to be living on purpose…”
The People and Their Brilliance team comes back together on the topic of resolutions. Harry feeds back on his experiment with a new sleeping habit, which leads to a discussion about the relationship between new habits and trust. Darius shares a deep wish for everyone to develop the kind of deep trust in the self that forms the foundation of confidence, of ease and of power. Then the team explores the challenge of a no alarm clock experiment to bring back in a future podcast. If there’s one thing the What’s Your Work podcast is about, it’s creating more ease and more spaciousness in the world, and this episode speaks to that in a powerful way.
Listen to full episode :
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As the title suggests, this episode is a direct follow up to a previous podcast on the same topic, which you can listen to here.
Interested in this topic, or even trying this experiment for yourself? We have a blog post on our website which you can read here.
If you try this for yourself, we’d love to hear from you! You can contact us here with your reflections, noticings, challenges and questions.
Alex worked as a Recruitment Administrator for People and Their Brilliance and is now continuing to work part time in recruitment whilst pursuing her career in music. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Alexandra Purpura.
Casey is currently working in digital marketing and is due to graduate from the Kickstart scheme in May. You can connect with her on LinkedIn @Casey White.
Henry is currently working in digital marketing and recently graduated from the Kickstart Scheme. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Henry Dewar.
Todd worked as a Training Administrator before graduating from the Kickstart Scheme. You can connect with him on LinkedIn @Todd Wheatland.
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Darius Norell
Okay, welcome back, let's say to this sort of ongoing conversation we're having about resolutions, building new habits, is that a good thing to do how to do that? What's given that so many of us don't manage to keep resolutions, we touched on this idea of maybe the beginning of the year isn't the best time to make a new resolution. And it's a time to recognise, resolutions we already made that really are deep in us that we've got a deep commitment to. And then look at, okay, how can we support that resolution, coming to life even more. And then as a separate exercise, look at this idea of building habits. And the difference being that we're not expecting that habit to be in place from day one, that there's a process of building it supporting it, that if one day one week, we don't happen to implement the new habit, there's not a disaster, that's we understand, it's just inherent in the process of building that habit of making that more and more likely to be the default and automatic choice that we make. So that's kind of a little little centre of where we where we got to. So I'd love to check in with you on that thoughts you've had since the last session, what stood out for you what you found valuable, maybe what you didn't find valuable clarifications that you've got anything that would be useful to cover to go more in depth to this topic. So we'll do a little go round to check in from interviews or movies, he will start with you because we spent some time, kind of workshopping one of the habits that you wanted to build. So what do you want to share from from the last time?
Harry McMullen
Yeah, so I was, I had this ambition to start waking up earlier, because I wanted to be kind of a morning person. And when we kind of talked through that I realised, though it wasn't about the morning itself, specifically, it was just about, it was just about me using my time better, I wanted to make sure I felt like I was using my time well, and I had found what worked for me was if I if I use the morning for things that feel productive, then I tend to get more out of my time. And so I followed your advice I let go of trying to get to sleep earlier and just focused on I want to be up around a certain time, I haven't used an alarm clock since we last spoke. And I haven't once got up at the time I prescribed in my head. But I've got up feeling much more, much better rested, because I've just let myself wake up. And then I've used my morning. Well, I think every day since I started this new habit. So I feel like it's been a really good step forward for me of building a new habit of I want to use my time well. And how I do that is I'm going to focus on what am I getting up for? How do I want to use my time. And some other habits have come out of it. Like I'm now writing a to do list every night for the next day. And then I have a little little hit of dopamine of like, every time I take off my thing on my to do list I feel like hurray for me. I did a great thing. Which is great. And that's just come out of this investigation of okay, how am I using my time? So it's been really good for me I am really happy. And Alex, you asked me what time you get up and it's scary to wake up without an alarm clock and it is scary. And as I say I haven't hit my kind of target time ever. But I got up at 20 past seven yesterday that's really not me at all. I'm a if I start work at 10am rolling out of bed at half nine and having breakfast doing my emails, typically. And yeah, and that doesn't feel like having a good day It feels like my day gets shorter and it doesn't feel good. And yeah, just by really being clear about why am I getting up what I want to achieve and how is that aligned with the life that I want to live? See, there's quite a subtle shift but it's had a really big impact on my life just in a week.
Darius Norell
So you're waking up naturally because they wake up naturally at 20 past seven or you did yesterday at least Yeah. And that was sounds like there was just a natural arising from having put in an experimented with an approach of allowing that to happen trusting your mind and body and says like feeling good about that shift? And and here's what I want to call out, just notice how quickly your brain goes to, oh, I've never woken up at the time that I wanted to. Which is not the goal, right? That was not that's not the stated goal. Yeah, you know, and this is I'm calling it that, because that's what our brains do is like, Oh, I'm not doing that was like, Yeah, that's the difference to me between resolution and habit resolution, I've got to do this every day. And if I don't, I'm failing, falling short. Versus now we're in the process of building a route a happy, happy, healthy habit, which really supports you and is deeply aligned, and allowing a period of adjustment. So that once the adjustments made, it just becomes something that's a deepen, recurring thing, naturally, that takes no effort. Right, this is one way to, there's lots of different ways to arrive at that. And this is one way that we're doing that's a very natural and natural path to it, you're seeing and you're seeing loads of progress. And key thing again, for what the research shows that to be happy about the results you're getting, which you're in, you are happy so that you are happy with the results, you're getting some massive signals the brain like, oh, do more of this. Right? So it just naturally becomes a habit which is aligned with your mind and body, and therefore happens automatically. So are there any questions you've got about it? Or any any thing you're looking to tweak at this moment in time? Or kind of what's your, what's your relationship to
Harry McMullen
it? Yeah. I've, I feel like I've got a question format of okay, what do I do when I first slip up? Or what do I do in a month when the novelty is worn off? But I kind of almost don't want to ask or get an answer to that question. Because I want to challenge myself to go away, we assuming that that's going to happen, or that if it does happen, I can't, I can't cope with it. I think I've got an attitude of, oh, this is going well, but at the first sign of trouble, I'm going to fold. And I don't know that that's true.
Darius Norell
I mean, it's it's it's curious to me that there's enough that you can even bring that frame, given how we're setting it up, which is you're not making any effort in the first place. So there is nothing to mess up. Right? It's just allowing another kind of observing of okay, what happens if I don't use an alarm clock, I get really clear on the benefits, I have an identity of how my life goes that's borne out by reality of Yeah, I seem to be living in a more purposeful, meaningful way, getting living more the way I want to live. And just deeply trusting where that leads. And your job is just to pay attention and notice. Okay, what results Am I getting? Does this actually feel better? Is this more in line with how I want to live my life like you say, your, your job is just to pay attention to that not judges just pay attention? Like, oh, yeah, that is leading more to what I want, or it's not as leading away. And that everything else just adjust by itself.
Your mind body system wants to feel good, it feels good to be alive, it feels good to be living well, it feels good to be living on purpose. And it doesn't typically doesn't feel great when we're not feel like we're wasting our time or like, No, we're not making it. So you don't you don't need to do anything to make that happen. It's just inbuilt in your system. So your job is just to pay attention to it and just let your system do what it does. And if it needs a rest, or if it needs to mess up, just let it that connects at all.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think what I'm maybe noticing is is a lack of that trust at the moment, but also, I think I can see with enough clarity that what I'm doing is building trust. Right, just so like, I'm just gonna let it happen.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Great. So let's check in let's check in with others listening to this. So either your own reflections on what we talked about last time, or what's coming up with you listening just to get to exchange Harry and I are having Yeah, he's got something to offer.
Henry Dewar
I'd say I'm listening to that conversation. It's quite it makes me want to try it. But then at the same time, I have a lot of thoughts that come up telling me oh, well, is kind of a bit dangerous or a bad idea because I reckon I'd probably like wake up at like two pm, I think that will be very helpful. So yeah, I just have a lot of resistance to that idea. But at the same time, it's sort of, I like the idea. And like, ideally, I would like to be able to wake up without an alarm clock.
Darius Norell
And so you up for exploring that for a moment?
Henry Dewar
Sure.
Darius Norell
So so you're, you're imagining that you might wake up at 2pm? And your feeling is, that would be a bad idea. You
Henry Dewar
Yeah.
Darius Norell
So what, what would be bad about it? What do you what are you seeing be bad about it?
Henry Dewar
Well, if I, if I woke up that late, then it would still mess up my commitments. Like, I would prefer to start working when I am supposed to. And like everything else, I just throw the whole day, at the wind, that kind of thing. Because it just be everything would be out of sync. And I just feel really weird. Whenever I've like woken up really late. The fire does feel really weird. Feels like the days wasted. Yeah.
Darius Norell
So my experience of you is a sincere person who wants to keep their commitments, doesn't want to let other people down, wants to do a good job. And so again, I'm curious kind of, that's part of you that I experienced as a deep part of you. Why you think that part of you wouldn't come out. So when you trust, like, okay, just, you know, wake me up at a time that helps me know, enables me to keep my commitments because it helped me feel good in my day go better. And I don't, you know, I haven't does not, I'm not gonna make it up, I really want to do that. And I don't enjoy waking up at 2pm. And it makes me feel weird. And and then I've let everyone you know, to trust that your system will do that. And it maybe maybe this is too simplistic, but But you could live your whole life never finding out by setting the alarm clock and going well, the consequences would be too bad. If I messed up, I'll just live. I'm going to use the word in fear of of that. And so I'll just do this, or I can try it and see what happens. And you're an incredibly fortunate situation that you're working for me at the moment, you know, you'd have my support, right? Like, if you don't, if you do work on TPM, I'd be curious about it. i Oh, wow. What's going on? That's amazing. wouldn't even bother me. It wouldn't even bother me to have a couple of days in a row. Right? If it happened a whole week, then I'd be kind of like, hey, there's another conversation to have about? What's what really is your commitment? Is there something else which is actually more important that you didn't realise? Right? But again, do you want to hold live your whole life and the reason this has been a philosophy for me, right? It's just really simplistically, I didn't want to live a life that wasn't aligned to what I was really committed to. And so the what I saw was, the more I had to do to get myself out of bed, the more that was probably a sign that hey, this isn't the right work for me. And I didn't want to find that out 10 or 20 years later, so it's okay. Well, look, my simple check is I've never used an alarm clock, right? Then if I wake up, energised and keen to do what's in front of me. That's not saying he's the only check. But that's a good sign of, okay, there's something here that I'm feeling energised and committed to, because I'm naturally waking up. And I want to find out, so if the best thing that happens is, wow, I can't get out of bed for this job. That's great data. To think go, Okay, well, what is it that would would be energising for me? You're a capable person, you're a committed person, you want to make something of your life and just trusting Okay, something some clarity will come from that. That's the absolute that's a worst case scenario. But that's, you know, that's a scenario that one scenario, still still really valuable. Because we're paying attention. We're not just like, oh, I woke up at 2pm. So what like, oh, isn't that interesting? Like, what what's really there? How does this feel? Is this really okay for me? No, it's not. Okay. So again, trust yourself, and then you see.
Henry Dewar
Yeah, yeah, I would be interested in doing the experiment. For sure. I mean, I kind of done something similar before, like, only going to sleep when I'm actually tired. And just do it myself. Wake up when I naturally wake up. But it didn't it didn't really work out so well. So but I'd be interested to try to get in like a different context. Maybe you have like different results.
Darius Norell
Yeah. And so I'm noticing your the word would, like you, I would be interested. Which is a sort of conditional like, what what are you interested? Yes. And so I'm interested. Yeah. So what does that mean? And this is not to, to, to push you into a commitment that you don't want to make. But I'm curious, what does that How are you holding what that actually means? In what in terms of what you want to do?
Henry Dewar
Well, I guess, the time I naturally wake up, has a lot to do with the time I go to bed, and also my routine.
Darius Norell
It's a different it's a different level of answer. All I'm saying is, this is an experiment, or potential experiment. And I'm trying to get clear on is this something that you're going to do an experiment around? Is that clear for you yet? Not just exiting, seeing how you're going to do it, but that you're going to run an experiment or not?
Henry Dewar
Yeah, I mean, I am hesitant about doing it, say like, I'm on a work night. So maybe I'll like try it at the weekend. First, see how it goes. And if I have sort of results that I deem favourable a might continue to do it in during the work week.
Darius Norell
So I notice a lot of fear, Henry, that's what comes like, oh, my gosh, it happened. Do you have anything to get up for the weekend? Yeah. I mean, you got commitments and? Okay, great.
Henry Dewar
Yeah, I just feel like at the weekend, it's like more more stuff for me. And so, you know, if I wake up late, then it's like, it's, I've disappointed myself, or like, oh, I have like, inconvenience myself, rather than that was, you know, it's kind of
Darius Norell
is that a bigger deal or a smaller deal?
Henry Dewar
I guess slightly smaller deal than if it's inconveniencing others. Yeah.
Darius Norell
And so again, just to reflect on what might be needed for your system to really kick into gear, it might need a bigger incentive. Maybe I don't know. Right, you can see, but it's not always, you know, I appreciate that you've been respectful of like, okay, well, let me try this for myself. I don't want to mess up. But it might be that actually, you need something at stake. It brings his is really important that you go well, no, it works.
Henry Dewar
Is that also? What is that not also living in fear? I just saw this this thing, it's important to have it or not like, it's like, fear in your system that wakes you up? Like, oh, if you don't, if you don't wake up now, something bad's gonna happen. Is that similar? Or is it? Does it come from a different place?
Darius Norell
That's a great question. It it. Yeah, maybe it's a combination of both. I mean, I, I'm focused on the toward result of, hey, this is what I want to happen, because it's important, right. But when there's something at stake, then yeah, there's also part of you, which is like, I don't want that to happen. So they, they're both there. Maybe I don't know, I haven't done enough research to know what's going on inside the brain and body to go, Okay, well, how much of it is fear based, then kind of, you know, it doesn't feel that way to me, like my experience of it isn't fearful? Because I don't, I don't say this in the right way. Like, I don't see it as a bad thing. If I don't wake up. Trusting Okay, that's what I that's what I need. Right? So this is a deep letting go and trust of my mind body system. So that's why it doesn't feel very fearful to me. What does it feel fearful at all because it's kind of, I do sleep in, they trusted me, that's what I needed. And somehow that in that moment was more important than the commitment that I made, can feel a little bit uncomfortable sometimes. But if I connect to the trust, then and then you get the other thing, which is sometimes you get some amazingly beneficial results that you didn't realise by having missed X Y, Zed, that, Oh my god, I was gonna catch this train. I missed the train, travel, and I was like, Oh, the thing was cancelled. That's interesting. But normally, obviously, when I did that day, and then the thing was cancelled, like what was good, you know? So it doesn't take many of those to go, okay. Maybe my system is actually even more aware of stuff that I could have no conscious awareness of, but somehow, but that comes over time, right? Once you when you had when you built up more and more trust in it. So it doesn't feel fearful to me. Does it? Do you notice? I mean, how does it feel as I'm talking about it, does it feel fearful to you? But
Henry Dewar
I guess, in the context of you know, setting my past work. If I didn't get up at the right time, the consequences would be harsher than, than say they are now. And so it's just like thinking about how it was now is so I still remaining sort of apprehensions.
Darius Norell
Sure. But as I'm talking about it and my own, does it sound can you hear fear in my voice?
Henry Dewar
No, I wouldn't say so. Yeah. Okay,
Darius Norell
that's good to check. Like, I'm not I'm not explaining that. You might say you don't think you're fearful. I'm hearing fear. Great. Let's bring some others in how Yeah, how's it going for you?
Todd Wheatland
I think it was interesting that he was able to do like, straightaway. Because he said he hasn't used his alarm at all this week. So that's something he was able to do just straight away.
Darius Norell
Yeah. Beautiful. Lovely. Thanks for picking up on that. So there's to check in with Harry, have you had any, you know, in quotes, massive failures, of waking up at? I don't know, what would be a failure time later than you would normally wake up?
Harry McMullen
No, because I haven't had a target in mind of it's going to be a have sort of said to myself, I would like it to be this time. But it's always been because I wanted to achieve X, Y and Zed this morning. And I've always been able to adjust, okay, I'll do this tomorrow instead. Or I'll do whatever, just, yeah, just by keeping that element of flexibility. And one thing I wanted to mention earlier was, there was a day when I set an alarm, I was like, I want to wake up earlier than this. But this is the absolute latest, I'm gonna wake up to the alarm. And I got up before the alarm and just just deactivated it, so it wouldn't go off. I didn't need it. I had this little voice that was like, just you need a failsafe, just in case. And I didn't.
Darius Norell
So were there any days that you woke up without using alarm that later than you would normally have woken up with an alarm? Okay, great. That's a great, so totally amazing to spot and great to draw attention to oh, he's just moved from this one way of being. And I'm not gonna speak for him. But it's not that he was making a permanent commitment. I'm never gonna use one again. Right. I'm understanding this was a kind of period of experiment of okay, let me see what happens. Is that, is that accurate?
Harry McMullen
Yeah, yeah.
Darius Norell
So what else comes up for you sort of listening to
Todd Wheatland
what he says so because he's just been able to jump straight into it, I'm just kind of thinking if there's anything that I can sort of do that. I can just become a habit of, I'm not sure what I could do at the moment. I've been like the sleeping thing. There's definitely something to think about.
Darius Norell
Okay. So there's something that's inspiring to you about oh, actually, is possible to make a shift immediately, at least for a period of time as an experiment and see, and it actually get results straight away. Yeah. Lovely. Thank you. Who else would like to love to hear from everyone? So
Alexandra Purpura
I'm sort of really struggling to connect with the positives, I guess, in a way. If we're taking like this sleep, waking up schedule as an example. I think every time like, you know, Henry, saying something or Harry saying something I'm like, Yeah, but it wouldn't happen like that. For me. I wouldn't be able to get up early because of X, Y, Zed, or I'd have to change my entire schedule. Or if I woke up early, you know, what would I do with all that extra time? There's like, there's every time there was some like positive said, I was always in my head like being like, Yeah, but doesn't work for me. So I was just noticing that a lot when that this whole conversation has been had. And it's yeah,
Darius Norell
you have wonderful. So again, great noticing, seeing, and I'm always you know, I'm always struck by in others, and in myself, how much story we have about old that wouldn't work for me. Before you even tried it, right. But But nonetheless, our brain gets very powerfully convinced, right, these aren't disliking, as he said, It's been quite as sounds like quite a strong experience, repeatedly of, of the brain having its own idea about that would work or that or that. Mostly, that wouldn't work because, right, that's really great to notice that, right? And so what you've done which is, which is fantastic. Because if if we only listen to that voice, and also we don't pay attention to it, but if we, if that's the only voice and that becomes the dominant, or driver, then that can really restrict any changes that we make, or do any opportunities that we have. So it sounds like you again, are you up for exploring that a little bit? Yeah, go for it. So it sounds like your brain hears something positive in that. Oh, that's interesting. Exciting. I don't know is that right there. A moment of all that sounds good.
Alexandra Purpura
Like, I'm really happy that Harry has like had this experience. So I'm really happy for him. Yeah, like, that's really positive. But it could never be a positive experience. For me. That's just how it sort of goes.
Darius Norell
So would you like it to be a positive experience for you?
Alexandra Purpura
Yeah, definitely.
Darius Norell
What would be attractive about it?
Alexandra Purpura
I think having a bit more control and a little bit more time to, to do things. Also, sort of just, I think it's also that clarity or sort of like that reassurance that I can actually do, like, implement a new habit, and I can actually, like, I think I struggle, I struggle to make habits, just anyway, I really, like need a lot of support, or I need a lot of encouragement. And to be able to do that, like, would be a big insight, like it would be it would, I don't know, it would help make me feel more confident about myself and like, more like happy about who I am. And I think it would shift sort of my personal view of, you know, my sense of self and who I am as well. And I think like, I want more positive habits in my life instead of the more negative ones that I sort of get stuck in. So.
Darius Norell
So there's something about a building confidence, which I think it really does, right, when we implement a new habit in line with what we would like, and we could see that taking effect and taking hold and kind of happy with the results. I think it really does build confidence. So I think it's a great a great spot. I'm curious, and then you also talked about the, it would give me more time. Right? And then then there was another word, you use that around control. And, and I can hear it two ways, the sort of, like, you know, one version is, oh, I can, I'm going to spend more of my time in a way that's aligned with how I would like to write. So that's there's sort of connect the word control to that. And then there's another way that I think what I'm describing is actually the giving up of control. Right, there's deep trust and okay, just let me trust, if I get clear, it's not just, I'll just trust her, just get clear on what's important to me on some foundational piece, what really matters to me. And how he's done that is always clear in his own mind of, hey, I want to spend my time well. And I noticed for me, when I get up early, my days go better, I spend more of my time doing what I want, is really clear. And then everything naturally, I'm saying I'm claiming everything naturally, then kind of like you know, you're allowing that. So it's a really letting go process, which is in a way, the opposite of control. And forcing.
Alexandra Purpura
I think it's more like less having, like, less having something else control me. Like, if we say the alarm clock is controlling me, and I'm not making like the active choice to do it or letting my body naturally do it.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So does that does that feel attractive or not?
Alexandra Purpura
It feels very, I don't trust myself, if I'm honest, I don't trust I have a very weird relationship with sleep, a lot of anxiety. And sort of like I know, even if I know I have to wake up for something, I will wake up every hour before my alarm goes off. That's just sort of, so I'm really worried that you know, I won't get a good quality sleep while I'm coming into work. And I won't be like, you know, performing as well. So I think like right now, it might just be something that I'm not, I don't feel like I can risk the time. But like you said, with Henry, having that commitment might push it. But like I said, obviously, there was still I'm still living in the past and you know, past experiences with sleep in general and waking up so it feels all a little bit like too scary still, to try and make that commitment to just let my body do it naturally.
Darius Norell
Yeah. But I noticed in me like a deep wish for all of you would be to develop this sense of trust in your self using self a very broad way, but just didn't like the mind body system that you have just really trusting. It was an incredible. I found it to be an incredible source of power, relaxation, clarity, being able to sense Information Awareness, like and yeah, that's not so many good. Yeah. So just it's an incredible resource. That yeah, I just notice a deep wish for all of you to to have an experience of and and build a relationship with that you can feel confident
I don't know what would help that. I don't know if that's if that's something you want to do. Firstly, I mean, like, I'm already like, hey, I can take what without the like, is that? Is that something? Does that sound? Something you want to go towards you like, what are you talking about? Quite happy, sticking to my alarm clock, whatever it might be or as many dimensions to this
Alexandra Purpura
I'm not sure how you know, you might be able to support us at this. Just get this off the top of my head at the moment.
Darius Norell
So yeah, I'm wondering if you even want support as in? Is it something you want to go towards?
Alexandra Purpura
Yeah. Definitely, because I've known in the past where I've just woken up and be like, Yep, I feel refreshed. I'm out. It's like eight o'clock in the morning. So good. Feeling like very calm for the rest of the day. So I know that feeling. And I know that it's there. I've experienced it before, but like foreign few, and like to have that more common on like a more frequent not even like a day to day but like a more frequent basis would be very beneficial, I think just
Darius Norell
wonderful. Yeah. Great. So you haven't experienced it yet? Yeah. I thought it was happening more on my life? That would be a good thing. Great. Casey, what are you making of the kind of composition? What's connecting for you?
Casey White
Yeah, I think I was thinking something similar to like what Alex said about? Like it not that it would be something that's would be good, but like, I don't think it will happen to me. So I kind of related to
Darius Norell
that. And what's making you think that?
Casey White
I'm already sure. I think it's just this like, so
Darius Norell
I think I think you dropped out just a second. Sorry. Yeah.
Casey White
Yeah, I'm not really sure. I think maybe just this. Like the sense of like, trust. I don't have with myself yet. I don't know you.
Darius Norell
But is that something that you want to build that sense of trust in yourself? Or an ER? No, again, you might not be sure how to but it does feel like something you want to go towards or not?
Casey White
Yeah, I think so. I think it could be good to be able to, like set my mind to something and actually believe that I'll see a positive outcome from it. Whether that's just like building habit, or Yeah, like sleep.
Darius Norell
The weird thing about this one is that it's almost the opposite of putting effort in. Right. So normally, when we think of doing a habit, it's like, right, I'll get focus, and I'll put some energy and I really try hard. And that just gets in the way. Well, that's one of the learnings that you know, this is about was becoming, you know, still ease inside yourself getting clarity, and then just allowing, okay, a wake up when they wake up. Man, you set an intention of okay, let me wake up in time for my what's important to me. We can set a specific time, whatever, you know, however you want to do it, but you're holding that intention lightly. Right? It's just a communication. And then and then you see what actually happens. And I'm moving, you know, I'm moving more towards how about we try this as an experiment as a group? Like, that's my that's where that's where my energy is heading. That we will take it on and see what happens for a perfect defined period of time, right? It's not a lifelong commitment, because might not suit you might not want to blah, blah, blah. But that we do it for maybe a week and see what happens. Sitting with you.
Alexandra Purpura
As long as we get like, you know, a bit of immunity. If we turn up at like half 10 Because we've just like fallen state asleep for a bit too long. Like there's no like, there's a bit of immunity, though.
Darius Norell
What's the consequence? So let's imagine that you come in at halftime, what's the consequences going to be? Well,
Alexandra Purpura
for me, it'd be working later. And I've already said that I enjoy the hours that I work and I like being able to, you know, leave earlier. So hopefully it will just encourage me to
Darius Norell
exactly have a beautiful built in mechanism. Yeah, to do anything of like, oh, I want to come in on time. I want to get my work done and I want to leave at this time. Great. Yeah, and And you just trust your system to deliver that for you. So there's no immune so the immunity like the there is a natural consequences just like if I'm coming in as I'm gonna stay later. Okay, I hope that doesn't sound you know, ridiculous or, or just be what you would expect or and I know you as a conscientious person is like what you would naturally do? I'm not going to be adding anything to that of okay, well, let's, you know, this is an experiment to see what happens. Cool. Okay, the other thing that might happen is this right? And this is where this, you know, I don't wanna get too far out, but you might be Hey, I came in at half past him. I got more work done in half the time today. Right, and then he like, that's interesting. I'm, you know, observing lots of different levels of wow, my level of focus was so high. Wait, I spotted this or I've saved you know. So just noticing all aspects, not just on what time that I come in, right. This is a this is a multi dimensional thing. So overall, what's the effect on me? And with my work, and my colleagues, and I'm a nicer person to be around, or whatever it might be.
Henry Dewar
I had a question for Harry. Yeah. Because usually, yeah, what happens quite often for me is that I will like wake up, usually sort of, a little bit before my alarm would go off. I just go back to sleep. And then the alarm wakes me up. And so yeah, and so I'm wondering is like, how do you know, when it's time to get up kind of thing? Like, might you wake up in the middle of the night and be like, Oh, well, I still want to sleep. So I will keep sleeping? Or do you know, like, Oh, this is clearly like, time to wake up? Kennedy. I'm curious about that.
Harry McMullen
Yeah, so for me, like if I wake up at 430, I don't go like, well, I guess my day started at 430. But I'm becoming intentional about what do I want to do tomorrow? You know, I'm trying to I'm trying to go to the gym, I don't like to go after work. I'm trying to go before work, I'm gonna have to get up quite early for that to work just for how my body works and how my workload is, and work, work, work, work, work. And so I just am like, Okay, I think I need to wake up between 007 and 730, if I'm going to get to the gym and still get back and eat and start work on time. And so some days, I will get up at 720. On day I got up at like, 645 it's just whatever. Because I know from the night before, how I want to spend my morning. And so whatever time I get up, I go, okay, that's what I'm going to do. And if I get up a little bit later, I go oh, then, you know, maybe like, I budget to 20 minutes to have a shower before work. I'll just have a shower and my lunch break. If I've woken up 20 minutes late or whatever. And just for the record, I can do that. Because I work from home. I don't come into the office.
Todd Wheatland
Yeah, I was gonna say would you be like more reluctant to do it if you weren't working at home? Yeah,
Harry McMullen
yeah, probably moving up more reluctant. But then it would just work differently. I go, Okay, well, I need to wake up even an hour earlier. Or, you know, I know that in the co working space that you guys all work out. I know that there are showers there. So I actually I might go into work early to shower there and have breakfast or whatever. But I think for me, as much as we've talked about the specific thing about it being about sleep. It's that's just been a consequence for me of going How do I want to spend my day, when I go to bed at night? Do I feel like I've spent the day well, and I know that if I've been to the gym, and I still started work on time, and I did a few other things that will feel like a good day. And also, I've been setting those intentions. Okay, this one I want to get done today. I just want to kind of naturally prioritise whatever comes up. And if I don't get something done, it just goes on tomorrow's list. It's fine. And actually, you feel then really relaxed about how I'm spending time. Because it just feels like that was I knew what I was trying to achieve. And then if something else happened, and that was probably more important, or achieved what I wanted to which feels good, but either way I feel I feel good. So So yeah, so I think that the sleep thing has been useful. And I would be up for a student as a group and kind of see it as an experiment. How do we all react to it. But the really valuable thing that I've really enjoyed has actually just been how it's affected my whole day and my whole life, because it's nice to get up early and go to the gym, but also, I'm fulfilling I'm breathing deeper and better company and I'm more focused on tasks when I'm focused on them. And I feel like I'm a person who keeps his commitments because I keep the unto myself, so it's easier to keep them with other people. And then I feel like that's good. I look in the mirror and see someone that people feel like they can rely on. Because then I keep my commitments. And I know I keep them because I keep them to myself. Which feels good. Not that I have all the answers to how to live a happy life forever and ever, but I've had, I've had a good week.
Darius Norell
Good, good. Right. So I'm back. Where did you wherever you got to in your conversation?
Henry Dewar
I asked Harry, about how to know when it's time to wake up. Like, as I was saying, for me, I do tend to wake up a little bit like in the night or shortly before my alarm goes off, like maybe an hour or so before. And I usually just go back to sleep. And you know, wait for the alarm kind of thing. So I was just wondering, like, how, what Harry's experience was, and like how he sort of knew when it was time to get out of bed kind of thing? Because I feel like, if I would, if I were to wake up again, say 5am, I probably say Oh, well, I don't want I want to keep sleeping. And so I do that and maybe like so yeah, I'm not really sure. How to know like, when when your body's telling you, it's time to wake up kind of thing like naturally.
Darius Norell
Great. So you're a step ahead in a way. So which is which is fine. But is this is this something as a group that you want to do? That's what I'm trying to get a read on? And then I will answer your question directly, Henry also, but is where did you end up as a group in terms of doing this or not?
Henry Dewar
mean I'd be trying it. Great.
Darius Norell
So this is for one week? Not not using the alarm clock? And we'll build some other bits around it. But yeah. Okay. Where's everybody else?
Todd Wheatland
I had waited like a day just to see what happens. But like, because my mornings, like quite dead, really. So I wouldn't show like why during that time.
Darius Norell
You don't know what time you're going to wake up? Yeah, I do.
Todd Wheatland
Yeah. But I if I have like, a few hours, if it's the same amount of time, I don't know what I'm gonna do with that time.
Darius Norell
So that's why it's called an experiment.
Todd Wheatland
Yeah, that's what I said I'd be able to do every day, just how it goes. And then if it's something I'm feeling, I probably continue to do it.
Darius Norell
Okay, Alex?
Alexandra Purpura
Yeah, I'm down to try it. Sort of just give it a go. I don't trust myself at all. But we'll see.
Darius Norell
This is also important in a way, and this is going to sound a little bit odd, but to disestablish the voices that we have about what's possible and how it's going to be. And that's not just to go, okay. Let me actually see what happens. And then we also realise Well, my thoughts about it, typically, their little reIation relation to the reality. Right, and it's not to ignore those voices, but it's just to get beyond just what that surface level reaction might be. And so yeah, just good to notice that you're starting with a Yeah, I don't trust myself, this probably isn't gonna work. Great. And we still do it. Until I'm going to suggest a day is not long enough to experiment. You need You need more data than that to be able to kind of work out okay, what's happening?
Todd Wheatland
Yeah, it just depends on like, the morning goes, Really, if I'm just sat around doing nothing, and I don't really know what to do. I just wouldn't be sure if I wouldn't want to continue doing that.
Darius Norell
Yeah, so So without going super deep into that, I'm going to suggest that could be a very profound experience for you in and why I'm saying that is that it could and you know, something might arise in that moment of what am I doing with my life? What would be exciting and energising to use this time in service of that might be a really helpful piece as you develop your understanding of yourself and what's important to you and where you want to go in your life and career. That the moment you don't get to see because you don't have that time. Yeah. And it may not arise. It may be that you get up at the same time as you are now anyway. Right. So where does that leave you in terms of doing this for a week?
Todd Wheatland
That's fine I guess I'll compromise, I don't mind doing it for a week.
Darius Norell
I was sort of Almost there with you. And then you said no, I'm not gonna get in the way.
Todd Wheatland
I mean, I'm happy to try it, though.
Darius Norell
Yeah, but the trying it is the the Yeah. Is for a week, right? That's the whole point. Because if like if Alex does it on day one and something goes disastrously wrong. Commit commitment is for the weak. Now, of course, you can stop anytime anyway. Right? But just having that look, yes, there's gonna be some maybe some interesting things that happened in this week that some of them might not be what I would most choose or like, or feel comfortable. But if we, if we always stop, as soon as something happens, it's uncomfortable, then that's really going to limit the quality of the experiments and the scale of experiments that we can run. You know, I'd run some crazy experiments that sometimes sometimes didn't work at all, sometimes, there was a moment of real difficulty that I stayed with, and then got to the other side of like, oh, wow, that was actually a necessary part to go through for some learning to happen or some insight to come. That if I'd stopped because that thing happened, then I'd never get the learning. So what I'm asking you is to commit for the week. And knowing that, it's up to you what you actually do, always, anyway. But to start to start with the commitment. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. And looks like Casey's internet connection has dropped. So we've we've lost Casey, so we can check in with her if that's something she's up for. So when should we do it? Next week?
Todd Wheatland
Tomorrow is fine. But then the weekend that I might,
Darius Norell
yeah, not really. Yeah. So yeah, let's, let's let's do it. I'll do it for a week. As it's starting on a Monday as it were. You can start on the weekend as well, Henry, if you want to just get some like practising. See how it works. Thank you. Yeah, I guess why not? Is that gonna be Yeah, well, I gotta leave it. Yeah. So either start, so let's run it for seven days. But you can either start on DO want to start at the same time as I'm trying to over engineer this. Maybe. But when do you it's up to you. When do you want to start?
Todd Wheatland
Monday? Sounds good.
Alexandra Purpura
Yeah, Monday. I'm busy this weekend.
Darius Norell
Loving it. Okay. You, Henry Monday.
Henry Dewar
You Yeah, what would happen if I would commit to doing something on Monday, but then I would try like, for myself on the weekend free agent,
Darius Norell
you can do whatever you like. Okay. Well, I might I might try that. Yeah. Great. Okay. And Harry.
Harry McMullen
I mean, I not that I'm committed to this. But I feel like this is my life now. So sure. I'll be doing it from Monday to Sunday of next week.
Darius Norell
Great. All right. So you actually won't see me much. The more actually, you'll see much in the mornings next week, because I've got a lot of early morning commitments. So my, my work is going to be starting at 6,30 Each morning. So I've got a I've got an International, an international client, different timezone. So yeah, you won't, I'll be I'll be doing doing a piece of work for for that company for most of the week. So it's gonna be great to check in with you probably won't even check in with you next week. So we can we can maybe do a check in the following week. So number one doesn't set you up for success. And Casey, I can see your back. So we just talked about making this commitment. We're making them it's a criminal to run an experiment for a week of not using an alarm clock. And the consensus was from the group so far has been Yes, to do it. And that would mean starting on Monday. And running that for the week for seven days. Is that something you'd like to join in with?
Casey White
Yeah, I'd be up for that. Great.
Darius Norell
And then we'll check in the week after we'll come back together. And so to set you up for success. I think there's a couple of things. Have clear in your mind. What it you know, an intention, what it means to you to get up at a certain time, where you're gonna hold it lightly. Doesn't matter whether you do or not, but just to have a habit. It's an experiment like oh, what happens when I get clear? This is what I'd like to wake up. This is how I'd like to feel when I wake up. You want to feel energised, inspired or I got again another day to see the picture. This is how I would like to wake up. And you can either specify a time, if you if that feels clear or not, you could just could just be a request to your body system, please wake me up at a time that's going to have me energised, fully able to fill my commitments to the best of my ability, and live in line with the commitments I have, right. And just so you can or could be, yeah, I'd like to wake up at 7am. Because I'm really clear, that's gonna start me off great, or 6am, or 5am, or whatever it is. So have a clear intention. Without a clear intention, with a clear connection to that intention, your system doesn't know what you want. Because that's the first step is create a clear intention, each of you will have a different one. A different meaning different connection to it. Second is, no matter what happens, it doesn't matter. Right? So if you start judging, getting upset worrying about oh, my gosh, I slipped into 11, or that's going to really interrupt your connection to your system. So you just bring in curiosity. Okay. Wow, I clearly needed to sleep. Trusting that's what I needed today. What does that mean, I need to do to fulfil my commitments? How does it feel? What's my intention for tomorrow? And so just staying present to and aware of okay, what are the results? I'm getting house's feeling and being curious about it. So those are the two dimensions that you set an intention with a connection that's meaningful to you. And then just notice what's happening in a very lightweight. Any questions around either of those?
So to two other thoughts come to mind? So one question you can ask yourself, if you're noticing and a week might not be long enough. But let's let's imagine you're two or three days in, you're like, Well, I don't seem to be that motivated to get out of bed. That's, that's one of the bits of data I'm getting is there's not there isn't enough at stake. For me. That might be true, but I just might be real at the moment. Is that Yeah, how I'm living my life? And what's around me, there isn't enough to get me out of bed naturally. So then a question might be, what would it take? What would need to be happening? What would the work need to be that I'm engaged in? Or what would need to be happening in my life, for me to be fully energised and excited about getting out of bed? And just you asked that question to yourself? And because you've been in this practice of trusting your system, you might get an answer that's a really high quality, different from an answer that you might get if you're stuck right now. Right? So if you if you notice that it's a question of you noticing, there isn't actually anything driving you having done this, then pose that question of okay, well, what might be here? What would need to be happening? You need to be fully energised and excited. So that's one question. The other one is an answer the question you answered, asked earlier, Henry about. Okay, I wake up at five. I don't know if it's the right time to get up. So I'm gonna be what do you think I might say to that? Trust trust your body. Yeah. And so what would what? Yeah, so what might you do to check in? Give me a bit of a clue there?
Henry Dewar
Just see how you feel like if it feels right, it's the right time if it doesn't smell the right time?
Darius Norell
Yeah, so you could exactly so you could notice that all the again. You could ask yourself, right, this might sound like a weird thing. So the reason I ask yourself that you could ask yourself is this the right time to get up? You're not like oh, how do I feel about yourself? Just ask that part of yourself. You're like okay, great. So I'm what'd you say? Was great as well like just noticing? Yeah, my energy is there. Like I noticed that this morning, right? I got up at 4am Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm ready. Great. start my day. In a way that feels aligned feels good I can accomplish a lot before anyone else is awake in the house and then that don't sometimes I'll check in sometimes I won't wake up that time sometimes the chickens like no needs capsulate but yeah, so I'm like hey, I get up at 4am Every morning No. But when the opportunity is there and if as you say with the energy whatever great I'm gonna go with it not like oh my gosh, there's no way I can get up so I got three M I noticed that voice in me like Oh, and there's no way I could get up now. So I'm making it up just like I'm saying you're making it because our brains do that like almost too early. Like why? Who says is too early? Right just like you might hear me getting up at 4am you go you crazy person has no way of getting that for you. But that but for me for Meriam is acceptable. And I can check in, if I feel good, then I'll get up. And sometimes I will get up earlier than forea. But I noticed when I woke up at 3am, in the week that I noticed the narrative of all that's too early, I will be, you know, projecting how I'm going to feel I have no idea, right? But this projecting how I'm going to feel what the content of that whatever it's gonna do. Or maybe a little bit like total we're going to do with all my time is three o'clock in the morning known as up, I can't speak to any minute. So just notice these stories we have about whatever it is. Okay, I'm going to pause there anything else that we need to cover? I'm quite excited. I'd love to check in how you are. But anything else we needed to cover to run this experiment?
Henry Dewar
Well, we've, we've talked about waking up, but we haven't talked about going to is going to bed, like what time? Is the strategy or is just like, because I'm guessing that if you go to bed at a given time, then you're more likely to wake up at a given time.
Darius Norell
Yeah. So that's, that's, that's coming from I'm going to try and make this happen. Where it's just conscientious, it's totally reasonable. And I'm saying that's let go of, you know, you could ask yourself, again, you just asked, okay, what time would be a good time to give him what's to give him this clarity I've got, what time would be good to go to bed? Is it the right time now? And then just the key thing is, you need to pay attention to that answer. Right? I will say this, if you start ignoring the information you're getting, you're gonna lose connection to that information is like, well, you're not even listening to me. So I'm not gonna stop telling you but if you ask, okay, is now the right time to go to bed. Even though you may not feel like if you get a clear, yes, then I'm going to say listen to it if you want to honour that message. So if you want to check in check in otherwise, just say really clear a little bit like we did with Harry just okay. Just allow that to figure itself out. Naturally, when you start, you know, well, I'm negative waking up later. And, you know, it'd be really helpful if I got up, you know, went to bed earlier. Just allow that awareness insight to arise if that is what's actually going to be helpful. Thank you for the question. What else? Anything else anyone needs to be able to run this experiment?
Harry, anything?
Harry McMullen
No, I'm just excited to see what comes up.
Darius Norell
Great, Casey.
Casey White
Yeah, nothing for me. Really.
Darius Norell
How are you feeling about it?
Casey White
I'm excited, but also sort of bit nervous about it, because I don't really know what's, what the outcome will be for me, personally. But we'll see.
Darius Norell
Is that a bit bit nervous? You see? Yeah. Sorry, Casey, I lost that. Can you say it again?
Casey White
Yeah. A bit nervous. about it.
Darius Norell
Okay, Todd, how are you feeling about it?
Todd Wheatland
Yeah, fine.
Darius Norell
Great. Alex, how you feeling better?
Alexandra Purpura
I was thinking of all the things I could possibly do if I get up early now.
Darius Norell
And what's the what's the feeling tone when you start thinking about that?
Alexandra Purpura
Oh, like Yeah, good. Positive. more fulfilled. Great. Yep.
Darius Norell
And Henry, final check-in with you. How are you feeling about it?
Henry Dewar
Yeah, I'm excited but yeah, I still feel an apprehension. Yeah, I'm definitely interested to try.
Darius Norell
Great. Look, thank you for being game. I'm excited to hear how it goes. On again, whatever happens happens. We'll have some great data and have a great conversation unpacking your experience. So yeah, I'm excited that you're doing the experiment and we'll see. We'll see what comes from it. Wonderful. So with that, yeah. I look forward to speaking to you when we speak next.
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